Curse

Serafita Kayin · Apr 17, 2006, 07:26 PM // 19:26

I'm getting factions. I want to qualify my next statements with that. Both my wife and I pre-ordered the CE.

But, during the FPE, I was forced to play PvP as a means of progression. I do not PvP. I have been almost begged to before, but I do not. I do not find any fun in it. There are too many whiny babies in PvP (there are lots in PvE, but they do different things) and I can't take henches to ignore them-I must take them along (and babysit.) I am a father already, I don't want more kids. In addition, I do NOT play FoTM builds AT ALL (my mesmer is so unconventional the only place I play her is with guild) so I'm SOL for most missions on the spot. Why do I want to force myself to do something I intensely dislike in order to progress?

Anet, I love your games, and even if you blow it on 2 AND 3 I'll keep buying, because of the friends I have made ingame, but seriously, I'm not out to PvP at all. Quit tying them to my ankle.

WasAGuest · Apr 17, 2006, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Actually, new monsters using new skills. The AI has a base functionality, sure, but that doesn't mean it's not new content. New monsters, new challenges, yet the familiarity of Guild Wars.

Again... wrong. Many new skills, unique from Factions. Because you can use combinations in Prophecies doesn't mean Faction skills aren't new. Brand new builds will be coming from Factions. Look at Broad Head Arrow... there's a build based on that waiting to happen alone!

The elite areas are only a small portion of the game, and from what I've heard fully 80% of the new game is focused on level 20 players. There are hundreds of new quests and missions, new skills to cap, areas to explore... you really can't see the petrified forest for the trees.

And this is purely because of your own doing. You are being far too narrow-minded. All you need to do is take your favorite class, create a new character in Cantha and actually play the game. If you can't find anything new... well, you have earned my pity.

However, you have failed to convince or prove a point with such a seive-like argument.

lol - I wans't trying to convience you or anyone of a point of view. I was also not argueing. I was answering the question(s) above. hehe Whether you or anyone agrees with my point of view or answer was never the topic at hand.

I also have to ask at this point, why defend Anet? Are you trying to save a sale for them or something? They will do just fine without my $50, I'm sure of it.
I never said they did anything incorrectly. I said "I" didn't like the direction Factions was taking and that "I" didn't feel I would get enough value out of the game. If I recall, I even said they had made a "Brilliant Business choice" in their business model. So I (yea "I" again) even claim that they made a good game and that people feeling they will get a good deal with it, well, they should love it.

The only one I will comment on is this though:

"The elite areas are only a small portion of the game, and from what I've heard fully 80% of the new game is focused on level 20 players. There are hundreds of new quests and missions, new skills to cap, areas to explore..."

80% of what? The PvE content? Or 80% of the entire game? As for the Factions FAQ, we see the majority of PvE content is based off of three missions types. Co-op, Challenge and Competitive. Competitive and Challenge missions are PvP based missions, and again, "I" don't enjoy PvP play. So, for me (me) there's isn't enough content to warrant the $50 charge. There are other quests sprinkled about and some missions that are co-op (I never said there wasn't), but there are far fewer that there was in Chapter 1 thanks to the lean towards competitive play. So, the problem is, I can see the forest through the petrified trees, and is why I will skip this chapter.

If it were less than $50 than I might have waited and picked it up as there is less I will enjoy with Factions, therefore it is less of a value to me.

Attempting to convince me other wise is moot at this point. With the cash I had on hand to buy Factions, I bought Oblivion instead. So, if someone were to convince me other wise, it's too late now anyway.

- of course, now I get to get goofed over by Bethesda and the $2 mods they are trying to peddle as "quality content". wootage! Ahh, if life weren't funny, I'd be mad as a hatter these days.

Mordakai · Apr 17, 2006, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

of course, now I get to get goofed over by Bethesda and the $2 mods they are trying to peddle as "quality content". wootage! Ahh, if life weren't funny, I'd be mad as a hatter these days.

LOL! Don't tell me you bought a virtual horse...

Honestly, I don't get the hype about Oblivion. I really don't. But, that's a topic for another thread..

WasAGuest · Apr 17, 2006, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

LOL! Don't tell me you bought a virtual horse...

Honestly, I don't get the hype about Oblivion. I really don't. But, that's a topic for another thread..

lmao - horse armor... who'd of thought people would actually pay for that stuff eh? - sorry, yea way OT.

Vermilion Okeanos · Apr 17, 2006, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Why do people keep saying "for PvP only"?

It should be quite obvious by now that, the more people you have in your alliance, the higher chance of you holding city for elite missions.

Nothing to do with elite skills or anything. If EvIL don't get couple hundreds of members like XoO, they can't even come close to compete with XoO in holding a city.

There are also faction quests that is repeatable, and give you as much faction as the PvP in about the same amount of time. Only that it is boring and tedious (to me), but garuntee 500 factions everytime.

It is all about numbers, unfortunately. Let's see who got the most skill in advertising their guild to get members.

WasAGuest · Apr 17, 2006, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion Okeanos

Why do people keep saying "for PvP only"?

I know for me, when I refer to those missions, I'm refering to the play type. I'm not refering to the players and their play style.
For example, as I mentioned above, the PvE content is rather slim. There are repeatable quests that give point rewards, and those were shown as fed-ex style quests. I'm with you there, boring.
The other options for PvE is the Co-op missions and the quests sprinkled (or littered) around and then the Elite end game missions. These are co-op non-competitive missions and quests.
The rest of the game play is PvP based, or competitive based. This is not a knock (for you Anet defenders out there); it is as Anet has advertised, a Competitve Online game.
Now, in reference to your post, the game design is well done in thought, but poorly executed and hence there are complaints (not whining) about it.

PvP gains points by competing, those that likely do that find it fun to do so. Each match is slightly different as people will alter or do something slightly different. Unless they are insane and do the same thing over and over expecting a different result.
PvE gain points by completing quests, those that do that will likely find it fun. Once those quests are done, do it again. It's the exact same as before though... now repeat it ten times... still fun?

By pushing the players into the numbers game, larger numbers will hold the cities, the casual players are being pushed out of the game in a matter of speaking.
How? Let's look at the build up. A guild can have a max number of players. An Alliance can have 10 guilds merged. Those "serious" guilds, those likely to hold the cities the most, are going to be looking at hard core PvP and PvE players only. Therefore, only those that can put in the time need apply.

Now we can look at the inner alliance "jobs". I get the word "job" from another thread, where someone said to another player "If you don't want to work for it, then you shouldn't have access to it"... I don't know about you, but I wouldn't pay someone to go work there... they pay me to work... anyway, the "jobs" will be vaguely placed here: PvP enter 12 vs 12, battle lines moving. PvE faction point farming.

We've seen the PvP players rejoice in the 12v12 battles, so they will have a blast doing it.
We've seen the PvEers groan at the thought of more farming... Hence, we have a problem with product execution.

To further state the problems with content and execution, we can look closer at it. If the top alliance has control of the biggest city in their faction, they don't have access to smaller cities missions. So they too will be locked out of missions and content. So, it doesn't really come down to whether your alliance is "uber" or not, it's a matter of never being able to plan or set up a scheduled mission run - which most casual players tend to do. - remember, those in charge of a city gain exclusive access to the mission there, others cant get in.

Edit: usual reasons, spelling, grammar, thoughts mixing together, you know... the good stuff.

Mordakai · Apr 17, 2006, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Hopefully, WasAGuest, this will not be the whole game.

While the competitive Alliance wars will be a big part of the game for some people, but I don't think it will have to be played in order to enjoy the game (much like I've been in UW once, and never been to SF or FoW, and still have had a great time playing).

Looking at the latest Gaile chat log, it seems Anet expects these Alliance battles to remain competitive, and if one Alliance holds a town forever, changes will be probably be made, because that will not serve the game at all. But there are plenty of threads discussing this issue already...

ubrikkean · Apr 17, 2006, 08:58 PM // 20:58

As far as I know, City of Villains is selling as well as City of Heroes did, and that is nearly the same kind of situation as this, except people haven't had their funds drained for the last year with Guild Wars, so $50 really doesn't seem like so much money... plenty of people bought CoH and CoV in addition to paying the monthly fee.

gabrial heart · Apr 17, 2006, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Actually, I have a fun guild...we invent stuff todo now that we have gotten almost every spot cleared. Really, most of the fun is being together with people you like to play with and just enjoying he show. If you can't do that then you probably wont have much luck with any game no matter what it cost to play...

Vermilion Okeanos · Apr 17, 2006, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabrial heart

Actually, I have a fun guild...we invent stuff todo now that we have gotten almost every spot cleared. Really, most of the fun is being together with people you like to play with and just enjoying he show. If you can't do that then you probably wont have much luck with any game no matter what it cost to play...

Yes, that should be the key goal of an online game. Having fun not just with yourself (that sound wrong somehow @_@).

If you can have fun just by yourself, why is it even online?

Personally though, someone need to make a casual player guild alliance. Gathering all the casual gamers in thousands. Then it would be an unstoppable storm =P

Instead of having casual players scattered all over, everyone come in one neutral name. Sounds good? Pretty good to me.

Jas D · Apr 17, 2006, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Don't judge the game because you only get 2 extra character slots. That's just pathetic. You guys don't even know what Factions is going to be like. Playing about 3% of the game hardly gives you an insight.

Don't buy it, I don't care and I'm sure a lot of other people won't either. Less people who buy the game = less noobs I have to deal with.

WasAGuest · Apr 17, 2006, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jas D

Don't judge the game because you only get 2 extra character slots. That's just pathetic. You guys don't even know what Factions is going to be like. Playing about 3% of the game hardly gives you an insight.

Don't buy it, I don't care and I'm sure a lot of other people won't either. Less people who buy the game = less noobs I have to deal with.

I like this post. Here's why:

"Playing about 3% of the game hardly gives you an insight."

I read this as saying "Anet's FPE was a failure, they should have allowed us to see more."
It also says to me that Gaile and Jeff are useless in their posts and interviews. Since we seem to have to play to know what the game will be like, why do they bother staying in touch with the player base?

"Less people who buy the game = less noobs to deal with."

I see this as the biggest problem Anet has to deal with yet. When trying to merge play styles, some of the biggest complaints we've seen in the forums deal directly with this. Attitude. Elitest attitudes.
I see those role players that are trying to get into the PvP gaming getting shouted at, cursed at, being called the ever humorous "noob" and more. Know why I see that? Cause that's what I got in the FPE.
I also see some players could care less whether Anet succeeds or not when I read this... as long as their "fun" isn't touched.

Anyway, not picking on you directly Jas. I've seen posts like this all over these forums, yours just happened to be here where I was getting ready to respond too:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion Okeanos

Instead of having casual players scattered all over, everyone come in one neutral name. Sounds good? Pretty good to me.

I think some of this will be fixed if we can ever get that role playing district up and going. I have a feeling most co-op players will move to that and it will be easier to find "like-minded" players.
The petition for that is still growing last I looked.

dargon · Apr 18, 2006, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelechRic

Now Valve is releasing the next chapter of the HL story and guess what? It's $20 and you get HL2 with it. **This is according to the latest PC Gamer.

I would like to point out just how long HL2: Episode 1 is supposed to take the avg gamer, 4-6 hours. Go through Ch2 in 4-6 hours the first time, I dare ya. Also, pcgamer is WRONG about it coming with HL2

Features

* An all-new episode for one of the best-selling action games of all time.
* Discover what’s become of City 17, Dr. Breen, and the G-Man.
* Incredibly advanced Artificial Intelligence (AI).
* Highly detailed environments, featuring High Dynamic Range lighting, provide amazing gameplay settings.
* Digital Actors: The most sophisticated in-game characters ever witnessed.
* Physical Gameplay: Objects obey the laws of gravity, friction, and buoyancy.
* Design Team Commentary Mode.
* Also includes two multiplayer games: Half-Life 2 Deathmatch and Half-Life 1 Deathmatch: SourceTM.
* Half-Life 2 not required to play.

this is from the official site, http://ep1.half-life2.com

Omega X · Apr 18, 2006, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by calamitykell

Sorry but you and 9 friends does not constitue "a lot of people", definitely not so much that ANet is losing sleep over it.

I consider it a Full Game, because it'll have as much content as...

a full game!

I will pay full price for a full game, so I will pay full price for Factions. Hell, I might even buy a second copy just to spite you.

Sorry, I talked to more than just 9 people, most whom I don't even know. And as for spiting me, you are only going to waste money torwards something that won't affect me the slightest.

I am just gathering input from sources other than people logged into the game at the current time.

Now as for the rest that I've read, (And I DID read all of the responses). IT seems that info on Factions has really confused me so far. That is rare for for any type of game release.

I can usually gauge reactions just to see how well people will react to the game itself. But the responses seem to be very 50/50ish. Some say that they will though xReason is not good. Others say I am going in head first. The rest is: I'm sitting it out or Its not my cup of tea anymore if this is how its done.

Oh, and I am going to ask this again once Factions is up and going just to see if the reactions were warranted.

A lot of people are also saying: They don't have to but others will. But its a failure to realize if there are more people than you are commenting about will also choose to vote with their wallets. And that will affect future versions of the game alot if you just so happen to like the way Factions is now. They could have avoided a lot of the negativity in the installed base if the game wasn't full price.

Oh and "Less people who buy the game = less noobs to deal with." Is not true by a long shot. What if all noobs buy the game? Less people playing/buying means less/or no reason for Anet to continue. The franchise would be considered a flop and Anet moves on to something else. If you really do care about the game and Anet then you should care whether or not the game will appeal to most gamers or not.

Daemon Dremora · Apr 18, 2006, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jas D

Don't judge the game because you only get 2 extra character slots. That's just pathetic. You guys don't even know what Factions is going to be like. Playing about 3% of the game hardly gives you an insight.

Don't buy it, I don't care and I'm sure a lot of other people won't either. Less people who buy the game = less noobs I have to deal with.

yeah you tell 'em Jas....lol... but i agree i am so tired of people complaining about only having a few extra char slots. so friggin what. buy a 2nd account or something it is only 50 extra dollars. which i may add is still cheaper then the price of any other mmo + its normal monthly rate. i honestly havent ever feeled up all 4 char slots on this account. only 2 or 3 of the classes appeal to me in the first place. now the assassin and the ritualist both appeal to me very much so those 2 slots will be taken up very quickly which still leaves me with 2 more slots so i dont really have a problem. alright well there is my 2 cents.

TsunamiZ · Apr 18, 2006, 04:16 AM // 04:16

Well, since ANET insists to keep CE items a mystery, a lot of people will wait just to see if they want the CE or not.

Amok · Apr 18, 2006, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by TsunamiZ

Well, since ANET insists to keep CE items a mystery, a lot of people will wait just to see if they want the CE or not.

What's the mystery? They've been pretty open regarding what the CE will contain.

http://www.guildwars.com/aboutgw/whe...rthamerica.php

Thom · Apr 18, 2006, 06:04 AM // 06:04

My normal way in on a WasGuest smash fest:

a) You made your point. We realize that some pure pvper weren't satisfied by the preview.

b) I found that Factions is a much richer PvEing experience. The world is more open in that large quests don't eat up huge chunks of the map. Questing was denser and most maps had at least one repeatable quest. Lore was denser and had didn't sound stupid once you had completed part of the story. Wasn't Elder Scrolls, but it had more of that feeling.

c)I am not an optimizing pve'er, but I'm not an idiot. Some of the PvE areas were really difficult. Main roads weren't bad, but if you got hit by a pair of oni's while aggroing then a patrol hits henchies didn't cut it. Hunting in the forest sometimes felt a bit like underworld. There were also a few quests that weren't easily acheivable with henchies or bad pugs. Sure I did 90% of stuff with henchies, but one of the quests (forget which one) required getting my little brother on vent to carefully plan and execute. That never happened outside of highend areas in prophecies.

d)PvP needs some help. GvG is great, but HA is extremely fickle at that moment. HA is very build intensive and tactically simple due to the nature of the maps involved. HA has a reward system that serves a large range of player. GvG is tactically and strategically interesting, but high end play is limited and time intensive. 12v12 was loved almost univerally by your PvP enthusists because it was almost purely tactical and tended to highlight excellent play. Although you have 12 guys on your team, one super-star had much more room to shine. Synergy builds, solo builds offensive juggernauts and holding players could all find a niche. While some of this is the result of everyone giving 12v12 a first try, the mechanics play a large roll. If you don't like PvP, just believe me this is what PvP was missing.

e)The old CCG crowd kind of gets the whole new skill thing. Some of us like having 300 new skills in order to find that combination which rocks people. Anet is doing a nice job of taking a class concept and shading it slightly. Rangers will still play like rangers, but if you are playing competitively you'll realize that the bag of tricks is a bit larger.

f)Assassins and Ritualists have a unique playing style. Assassins "rhythm" is very different from a warriors due to energy/recharge vs adren, but they will largely fill similar roles. Ritualists add an entirely new dimension to the game; optimized spirit builds and ritualist supporters will be a force.

g)While things don't look great with elite content, the final word has not yet been spoken. No one realizes how much of prophecies was still being adjusted down the stretch. I can see waiting for feed back if you are an pve only type.

h)Those who want to play Guild Wars like a PvE MMO will never be happy. If you want to grind grind grind on your own schedule, there will always be something but never nearly enough. (play Silk Road)

Guildwars was a good base system for a certain type of game which was not fully exploited the first time around. Factions is filling in some of the gaps on the guild/pvp side while also doing more with lore and art. PvE issues are addressed to the extent that more of the game will still be challenging (and therefore replayable) for a lvl 20. While Prophecies had a nice "hook" in Ascolon, much of that experience didn't carry through. Faction seems to place that richness in the parts of the game were you will be spending the most time. I'm excited about release, but realize that expectations aren't always met.

Dove_Song · Apr 18, 2006, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Well Said Deamon

EternalTempest · Apr 18, 2006, 06:25 AM // 06:25

Side Note: Oblivion... $1.89 for your own wizards tower you can call home may be worth it ... but I would need a computer that could run the game correctly

I too have concerns about the hyrbird PvP/PvE stuff, PvP is currently not my cup of tee but one thing is how much Anet will change the game based on feed back. If faction turns out to be to much PvP heavy, I can see a swing for C3 to be more PvE heavy while keeping the same mode of play that C1 and C2 have.

Anet does not expect to keep the 1 mil + C1 base to all go to C2. If there goal is to sell 1 mill copies per chapter, having 500 k from C1 and 500 k C2 reaches there goal.

One of the things that people may not think about is say it turns out you can blaze through the PvE content quicker and your not in to PvP. Instead of waiting 1 year for new stuff, you have 6 months to complete it before moving your character to new shores. I don't know how fast I will take me to get through the new content. I've seen too where it's a smaller map but far more "dense" with stuff to do.

Again I do have some concerns with C2 elements but not enough to not get the CE version of it. If factions turns so so, I know without a doubt C3 will be different from C1 and C2 no matter how good or bad it was.